Due by 7 a.m. Friday, October 5Read the articles a)"Fight for the Top of the World" : http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1663445,00.html
and b)"CIA Expands it's Inquiry into Interrogation Tactics":
Both articles make allusions to topics we've recently covered in class. Article A discusses the colonization of the Arctic and clearly relates to the scramble for colonial territories in the Americas that occurred during the 15th-17th centuries. Perhaps more controversial is the position that harsh interrogation tactics toward suspected terrorists as described in article B can be likened to the persecution of suspected witches in the New England colonies in the 17th century (collectively referred to as the Salem Witch Trials.)
Consider our recent study of culture and poltics in pre-revolutionary colonial North America. Reflect on the relationship between these current events articles and your study of history. When is the use of colonial power and harsh interrogation tactics justified? Is history destined to repeat itself?
Sound off E Block!
You may reflect on one or both of the articles assigned. Remember to respond to the question as well as the comments of at least one other classmate. Your response should be at least 200 words.
Image: "The Snow Queen", Hans Christian Anderson, 1844.
25 comments:
Mariel Elia :)
Oct.1st.2007
Personally, I think that history is never going to repeat itself. With all the war today, anything is possible. The same events and the same arguments are probably not going to be repeated. This generation is so much more advanced then back in the 1600's where people didn’t know what an "atomic bomb" was. People were worrying about witch craft, not people blowing up countries. The world is not a perfect place and maybe the war will still be going on in 10 years from now. People these days have many advanced weapons that can destroy a whole continent. We nations have a way of preventing problems. We call those people the members of the United Nations. Those peoples jobs are to work out situations with other nations and help stop problems such as economical problems, financial problems, world wide problems , or even those poor countries where their is no fresh food or clean water. Many worldly problems are in the process of being solved. Anything can happen, one day the world might be at peace . . . or we reenact war of the worlds.
Samantha Goon
October 2, 2007
Responding to Mariel's comment, I have to disagree. She is correct in stating that a lot has changed between advancement from the Old World to the New World, but there are other problems that have once occurred and may be happening again.
The use of colonial power and harsh interrogation tactics will never be justified in my opinion. There will never be world peace. According to article one, "Fight for the top of the World," history is finally changing because of global warming, we are dating back in time when humans migrated down towards North America. History is destined to repeat itself because we are witnessing another new game of who's owns the land of the Artic. Since the ice-cap is melting due to global warming, animals have to travel elsewhere to live. During 10,000 B.C., when the ice-caps melted and flooded, many natives had to leave and migrate south towards North America. "If the warming continues, he fears that the cod population will shift farther north, disturbing the food chain for the ring-necked seal..." Russia, Denmark and Canada are all arguing to see who this land belongs to. Another reason that history is repeating itself is that the Russian's planted their flag on the territory and claimed, "this is our land." Many were fed up and said, "this isn't the 15th century where you can claim territory where ever you want. Land is now scarce and people are power hungry for more. It's hard to say who the land belongs to, but history is about to repeat itself. This time, it'll be a very difficult game played, when every turn counts and countries are vicious.
Kristina Sanzone*
October 3, 2007
After reading both articles and both Mariel and Samantha’s points of view, I feel as though most of my points were already suggested. To say that I don’t agree with either of them would be a lie because in a few ways I actually agree with them both. For example, Mariel stated that today’s world is much more advanced than back in the 1600’s. This is completely true and I agree, however, I do feel that if in the 1600’s they did have the same technology that we acquire today the situations would be even more similar. Also, Samantha said that she does not agree with Mariel when she said that she thinks one day there will be world peace. Trying to be as optimistic and realistic as possible, I would have to say that the chances of world peace happening are slim to none. To get a little bit deeper into the question “will history ever repeat itself”, the answer can and should most definitely be guessed as YES! Along with what Samantha said, history has, and will forever repeat itself due to ongoing war throughout the world. As for colonial power and harsh interrogation tactics being justified, personally, I don’t think they ever can be. “‘Policies and procedures on detention interrogation in Iraq and elsewhere have been the focus of intense oversight and scrutiny, and very close attention has been paid to making them lawful,’ a senior intelligence official said Friday.” Today we have rules set for the interrogation of people and they should be followed forever so that things can stay calm and our country stays safe.
Yes Sir, I believe that history is going to repeat itself because if you look at the newspapers and on T.V you can clearly see that each day U.S has a beef with a number of areas which in a few years can lead to a world war. If people say that history is not going to repeat itself than there wrong because now more than ever people are killing and just doing bad things in today's society. If you think about it at the rate we are going we might have started something big with the countries we refuse to help or have problems with. In the article ATRUE RELATION BY THOMAS PERCY you can see how he described the brutality of the people of jamestown. In the article he explained that the peoople there were acting like savages and, no offence that's what this world is like people killing people and I believe that's the way it's going to be. Even though in today's world we can't hope for world peace but hopefully in another time we can.
John Harden
Block A
The use of colonial power and harsh interrogation among other frowned upon political methods should be considered justified in times of war and great need. I must completely disagree with the statement made by Mariella “Personally, I think that history is never going to repeat itself.” History has been proven to repeat itself time and time again. Genocides and major persecutions happen to begin almost every ten to twenty years. The persecution and what I consider being genocide, of the Native Americans during Colonial pre-revolutionary America and the unjustified persecution against the Quakers by Puritan colonies is almost on the level of Hitler’s persecution and genocide of millions of Jews. I do realize that in Europe conditions were harsh and the Americas seemed like the perfect place to go, but the killing of Non-Puritans was wrong and unnecessary. History repeated itself in Germany during the early 1930’s when Hitler was elected to office because he promised the starving German people “stick with me, and you will never go hungry again!” It bothers me that during these two Genocides nobody did anything to prevent them, people agreed in the 17th century that witches and American Indians were evil and malevolent people and Italy joined Germany in committing the mass genocide known as the Holocaust. The harsh methods used by the people of 17th century America and Nazi Germany seem to have had a positive outcome in light of economics. These two countries are on the top of the leader board for the most powerful and richest nations today. (America being the 1st and Germany being the 3rd). Japan whom had partaken in what can be considered genocide of the Chinese while trying to colonize and overtake China during the early 20th century has now become the 2nd richest nation in the world. None of those actions can ever be considered completely justified by me; however they do lead to positive outcomes economically. If America decides to colonize Antarctica, the outcome might be incredibly beneficial to the future stability of our countries economy. The usage harsh interrogation was used by the Fascist Spanish during World War 2 to selfishly protect their regime. Today, America is using harsh interrogation to protect not only the government of the United States but the people of America as well. With the facts I have presented above, Mariella’s statement can most defiantly be considered a statement made erroneously. I believe that the harsh interrogation of prisoners by America is justified as the modern world is a much more dangerous place in terms of weapons available to people with power. So Colonization, harsh interrogation and other morally incorrect political methods will continue to upset many people as History is proven to repeat itself, but then again, all is fair in love and war.
This is fantastic, passionate discussion - i'm quite impressed. I think it's interesting that all of you seem to agree that the world is more globalized than ever. What I mean by this is that the problems described in these articles are reeking havoc on all the nations of the world. Mariel and Kristina see international law and non-govenmental organizations as the tools that will quell these problems and keep them under control. John, and Sam G., on the other hand, beleive things are getting worse and see no end to the cycle in sight. I wonder about the concept of regulations and monitoring of justice in the modern world. Do you all trust the member nations of the UN and the US senate to make the decisions that you think will benefit society in regards to the arctic and the terrorist interrogations. What kind of action do you all feel is justified in these areas? Should the US claim land in the arctic? How should national security be managed in the US?
You're all on a roll... keep it going A Block!
First, I must say I disagree that with Mariel on her opinion of history repeating itself. A perfect example would be found in the article "Fight for the Top of the World". Graff explains how numerous countries are vying for the Arctic territory. This is in relation to the empires that vied for the Americas territory centuries ago. Graff even states, "...it is tempting to think that — not on the steppe or dusty mountains but in the icy wastes of the frozen north — a new Great Game is afoot" (Graff 1). The term “Great Game” refers to the rivalry and strategic conflict between the British Empire and the Russian Empire for supremacy in Central Asia, the competition between China, Germany, Russia, the United Kingdom, the United States and other countries to secure long-term sources of petroleum and natural gas through in the post-Soviet nations of Central Asia, and now refers to the scramble for a giant pile of ice.
History is repeating itself. I also disagree with what Tiffany said, "Events have never been repeated," I strongly disagree. The world continues to repeat itself in positive and meditative ways. Just like Katie,” I feel, that history is only destined to repeat itself if we allow it to". Until we make a change in our society or start something new we will continue to live in the same boring world. We do repeat our self’s in wars and technology in general. Without technology we can survive just like the people did in Jamestown .Except each time our technology skills increases which lead’s to better weapons. Sometimes I wish the world would stop repeating itself so that the world would be interesting place to live in. I am the type of person that gets bored really quickly. I don’t like doing the same things over and over, it gets irritating! Ok, Thank you, bye
Emily Marks
October 4 2007
It seems impossible that the events of the past can relive themselves, seeing as the past is the past and most of the past problems have already been resolved and do not need re-resolving.Though technically if the leading causes for the event happen then honestly it could reintroduce the problem to the world, though since the problem happened already we would already have a sense of how we should deal with it and wouldn't be completely in the dark with what was going on. Forums have been created for the soul purpose of diplomatically discussing these issues so events that cause the economy don't reoccur. AS for the future well no one really will know until it happens but i say that the chances that it will repeat itself are slim to none.
unforntunely history has a habit of repeating itself. History is destined to repeat itself over and over again because relating to goons comment and mariel's even though there have been "changing between advancement from the Old World to the New World, but there are other problems that have once occurred and may be happening again." History has repested itself in wars and also in genocides. an example of history repeating itself was during adolf hitlers theocracy and the extermination of jews in europe and the genocide happening as we speak in darfur africa. I believe that history has and still will repeat itself over and over again and its up to us to stop it in the future.
Janell McBean
A-Block
History is actually destined to repeat itself, in my opinion. Many people believe that once it has happened, it wont happen again, just like Mariel said, "The same events and the same arguments are probably not going to be repeated." That is not exactly the case, however it can be true that most issues wont repeat but most likely issues are not solved the first time. Numerous steps follow along right after the first time in serious or important situations. Also, just as Kristina said "Trying to be as optimistic and realistic as possible, I would have to say that the chances of world peace happening are slim to none." I found what she had to say very powerful since its so true that world peace probably wont exist, ever. It's sad how that turns out to be so believeable. The world is never going to be faced with no issues or no situations that are threatening. These things are going to happen whether anyone likes it or not because it's the way of life and nothing is usually fair. Everyone and everything has to fight for what they believe in and what they dont believe in. That is what makes the United States of America what it was and is today. It's impossible for one person to not still be trying to pursue something after the fact of the matter. This is mainly why I believe history is destined to repeat itself.
Like it or not, it's a habit that's too late to be stopped. History will fulfill once again by repeating itself. History is like technology, it comes and go but later comes back with a better and smarter ways to enlighten people. According to Goon, "Since the ice-cap is melting due to global warming, animals have to travel elsewhere to live. During 10,000 B.C., when the ice-caps melted and flooded, many natives had to leave and migrate south towards North America". This right here is a perfect example of history repeating it self. The whole process of history is like a game, once you fail, you must start over until ur done with wat you have to do. Global warming is another example of history repeating itself. People know what happens when they pollute the air, it eggects other places. The saw how it effected the artics. although they saw it, their still repeating their actions.
Mac
Qadeem G.
A Block
Both articles,"Fight for the Top of the World" and "CIA Expands it's Inquiry into Interrogation Tactics" are related.The first article discusses issues that require immense measures to be taken that are is some way beneficial and some that aren't.
The issue presented in the "Fight for the top of the World" is the claim over the artic seabed.The artic has land that has been frozen in ice and due to global warming,the ice has been rapidly melting.Many countires such as Russia,the United States,Canada,and countries in Asia are fighting for the land.The land that exist in this area is believed to cntain about 10% to 20% of the world's oil reserve.This would help the claimer of the land's country by bringing economic opportunities.However,the use of natural oil has negatively affected us and still is today.Over 20,000 sea creatures have died due to climate change,and the change in the geographic landscape due to Global Warming.
The United Nations is pushing to change international treaty on the Law of the Sea but the U.S. says it's a shackle on their soverienty because it basically gives ownership of land to those closest to it or within 200 nautical miles of a country's coast.
The other article,"CIA Expands it's Inquiry into Interrogation Tactics" explains the concern about abuses at Abu Ghraib prison.The concern is that innterogations are taking place that aren't conducted in the proper way.Prisoners have been mistreated and killed.According to the article,leisure should be given to innterogaters so that information could be exposed so that Americans can be protected.How much leeway do you give someone without giving too much.The other concern is this matter is that innterrogations done should be done in a more professional way.,that is,people should recieve humane treatment during interrogation.
Both of the articles hae one thing in common.New laws or revised laws are sometimes set to protect certain people and or favor particular people.Whether the law is right or wrong is not the concern to some people.
The use of colonial power and harsh interrogation tactics are justified when the interrogated hasn't caused the accussed to commit a crime or plot to commit a crime.I believe that what goes around comes around and treating people inhumanely in order to get information on a situation out of them that affected you negatively because you triggered them to react towards you negatively is ridiculous.
In relation to what has happened at Guatonomo Bay,I do believe history has and will repeat itself,forever,amybe.
Qadeem G.'s Response to Jaynelle
A Block
I agree with you,history definetely repeats itself.Life isn't fair at all.People forget that we are humans and we fight for survival.We do what we have to do in order to get what we want.People do things that are going to negatively effect them later and then when it does they do something else that has the same type of outcome.That statement is as simple as it can get.The same outcome occurs over and over,and thats just history repeating itself but it's not neccessarily always a good thing for history to repeat.
Like Kristina Sanzone, I do believe that both Mariel Elia & Samantha Goons points are correct. I also do believe the saying, 'same problem, different day.' What is known as karma, goes on everyday, for example, World War I, World War II, and are we in World War III now? Even if the circumstances are different, technologically and industrially, it's still war ain't it. But i do stress that enorder for a change in the nation, something drastic must happen first. Global warming is not only a nationaly issue, it's a global as well, yet people still fail to notice. Many years after now I do believe, at the rate we are going at now, the world is going to get much much worse than what we view it as now.
Karmila Saulong
October 4, 2007
History has proven time and time again that it has repeated itself. I do not agree with Mariel. Although our generation has grown to be advanced since colonial times, the same problems reoccur. Many of the problems dealt with fighting over land, religion, money etc are the foundation of why history repeats. In the 16th centaury, colonial America had the Salem Witch Trials which held a interrogation process that occurred not only once but there have been numerous times that people were questioned in a harsh way. From what I can recall, this is practically the same thing with the Red Scare (McCarthyism) and to events of today. As evident from the article, C.I.A. Expands Its Inquiry into Interrogation Tactics by Jehl and Johnson, it describes it as “Policies and procedures on detention interrogation in Iraq and elsewhere have been the focus of intense oversight and scrutiny, and very close attention has been paid to making them lawful”. This shows how people were unfairly treated and it still happens today. The Article Fright for the Top of the World by Graff relates to the territories of colonial America. People have fought over land. The colonial power was abused and throughout history many countries abused their power also. And people fight over resources just like now. Like in the early migration of the Native Americans, they crossed the bridge and claimed what ever land they could. In this article, people are again trying to claim land and it’s another example of how history repeats itself. Even if people say the situations were different back then and they don’t relate, history still based on the same things. Some of the problems in Colonial America still occur today.
t history is repeating itself is crazy. Many events that are going on today may be similar to other events in past. Like with the detainees and the salem witch trails some people think they are the same. While in the 1600's there was no proof unlike today when there is proof that the detainee is terrorist. With the ice caps melting and that everything will start over. The last time the ice caps melt was 10000 years ago when everyone was a cave. But now we have much more thechogly to protect lives. Saying that history will repeat itself is like saying Mr. T is not a role model.
Melissa Laurore
A block
Personally , I think that history is able to repeat its self. If we look around us today, history itself is begging to repeat itself. If we look at the different wars being fought in different countries and all the people being killed over senseless things such as land , money and goods is the same thing that happened before , in history. A perfect example is during the time period of Adolf Hitler and his ethnic cleansing of the Jews. This is being repeated right now in Darfur, with the Hutu killing the Tutsi. If us as a society continue to allow certain things to happen in the world, then we are the ones who let history constantly repeat itself, weather its good or bad. People in Jamestown didn’t have the conveniences we have today, so the wars that happened then can’t be compared to the wars that happened now. Now since our weapon power increases so does our means for war. In our time and age, it seems that war is unnecessary. There just seems to be to many reasons that war is being repeated and it seems that if we look back there is also a way so that the incident could have been avoided.
Saman aka sleepyhead:D
A block:P
In my opinion I believe that history will repeat it self. There are so many events in history that are basically happening to us today. When we read Julius Caesar with Mrs. Kaplan last year we learned how the government we trying to get more power over it people. In our day the president is trying to change the foundation of our country, and what it all about. So HISTORY DOES REPAET IT SELF! In my opinion the world will never be a perfect/peaceful world. And to respond to Mariel, the United Nations can not call almost every country in the world, and try to fix every problem. The united nation is there to help with big issues. And to help counties work out solutions peacfully.In one example of history repeating itself, when the Salem witch trails happened there wasn’t ever any real hardcore evdivces. And those witches were jailed and then burns at the states. Now and days you can be taken in for questioning, and even be convicted and you aren’t presented with the even against you.
Tarina Meaders
Oct.9,2007
A.BL0CK
I've always believed that history repeated itself. So after reading these articles my point was further proved.The C.I.A. piece written by Douglas Jehl David Johnson, was a perfect example of how history can continue to haunt future generations. As Ms.Francis mentioned, it reflects the Salem Witch Trials and other accusations of witchcraft throughout history and how violent they became. In the 16th and 17th century, there always an assumption that people were less educated about folk and things around them. Usually,that is the possible reason for the accusatory, and erratic behavior of the people of those times. This is a significant reason of how history always repeats itself because humans are terrified of what they do not know. This means that other leaders,or authority figures across the world have the unfortunate opportunity of making past mistakes because of lack of knowledge within certain situations. Similar to the new interrogation methods used by the suspicious C.I.A. members after September 11th.
I believe in keeping a positive attitude when things are starting to turn sour, for hope of changing the lamentable into something good. This leads me to disagreeing with Samantha about her point of there never being world peace. Her argument is reasonable but, if everyone who may want a change in society were to think that way, there will never be a fighting chance for anyone to achieve that goal. So, yes i wish for peace among all countries but history is obviously destined to repeated itself. How could that be impossible if it has already proved to do so all the way up to this very productive age. Just because advanced technology, and the UN, and other helpful maneuvers exist, does not mean that people will not be capable of obtaining the same power-hungry, and arrogant thoughts.
It seems impossible that the events of the past can relive themselves, seeing as the past is the past and most of the past problems have already been resolved and do not need re-resolving.Though technically if the leading causes for the event happen then honestly it could reintroduce the problem to the world, though since the problem happened already we would already have a sense of how we should deal with it and wouldn't be completely in the dark with what was going on. Forums have been created for the soul purpose of diplomatically discussing these issues so events that cause the economy don't reoccur. AS for the future well no one really will know until it happens but i say that the chances that it will repeat itself are slim to none.
Matthew bowlin
Based on the way human society is constantly changing, it is unfair to compare life today to the 1600's. Back then, there was not one single weapon capable of destroying the earth. today, this threat is growing larger. Every decade, there is a new fear of the world ending. for example, when plague struck, many believed it was the end of the world. today, our fear is a blend of global warming, comet collisions and nuclear war. Although it may seem as if the earth is being destroyed equally every decade, this is a false statement. as a matter of fact, in 2007, a study of arctic ice showed a massive increase in Co2 levels in our atmosphere. Since the belief of world destruction is constantly changing, it is nearly impossible to compare the problems then to the problems we face today.
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